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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
525
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Posted - 2015.04.16 03:40:55 -
[1] - Quote
umah wrote:To be honest, I don't see this changing anything at all.
Since the system is closed, everything from ore to product will just readjust in price to make it the same slog as its always been.
The industry problems in null sec have nothing to do with mining.
Its based on a political/military equation, not economics. The sov holders don't and never have used the space they hold for anything except good fights over moon goo (which instantly goes to Hi Sec)
I don't see that changing, frankly, industry sucks in 0.0 because you lose everything to the first frigate that drops on you. The risk /reward equation just doesn't work for industry in 0.0.
Then there is the problem of RMT
The only time 0.0 industry ever worked was in Drone regions when NPCs dropped refinable loot. When that was nerfed over RMT concerns, industry dried up, and Drone regions became worthless wasteland. With that nerf, CCP made it clear that industry in 0.0 was not something they wanted, because it made drone regions too lucrative.
If 0.0 becomes good industry ground again, then RMT comes back, so they are in a box.
hahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha
no. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
525
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 04:39:38 -
[2] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Should we leave highsec industrials at the mercy of nullsec, while removing their dependence on us?
Yes, because giving nullsec the ability to produce anything without having to import ore completely removes our dependence on highsec. Meanwhile, the ability for us to mine ore will completely crush highsec, making it a barren wasteland with nothing to do there.
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
525
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 05:07:05 -
[3] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Should we leave highsec industrials at the mercy of nullsec, while removing their dependence on us? Yes, because giving nullsec the ability to produce anything without having to import ore completely removes our dependence on highsec. Meanwhile, the ability for us to mine ore will completely crush highsec, making it a barren wasteland with nothing to do there. My wording if you look back at the post echoed the wording of that posters language. You chose not to include that person's post in your quote so that my words could be read as you prefered them. But if its the word games you want to play I'm up for it. Yes, we all know it is impossible to produce anything in nullsec that's why I personally only make titans because it is so lucrative, then I move them to nullsec in my JF. As to your wasteland comment it bellows so much exaggeration it isn't worth any more comment from me than pointing out how stupid it made your entire post read.
Apparently the rolleyes wasn't enough of a sign there for you.
My post was a sarcastic comment on all of the idiots that try to argue that allowing null to source ore locally would make either side independent of the other. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
525
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 06:48:50 -
[4] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:Yes, because giving nullsec the ability to produce anything without having to import ore completely removes our dependence on highsec. Meanwhile, the ability for us to mine ore will completely crush highsec, making it a barren wasteland with nothing to do there. Except you ALREADY had the ability to produce on local ore. You just had to get out and strip those static belts daily. Rather than just farming the anoms all day. The point that will crush highsec is that the anoms are getting changed, letting you just farm them, highsec was already getting crushed by your increased refine rates which was slowly but surely deleting the high sec mineral stocks since all the ore was now getting sold to Null. This just furthers the process.
laffo
Your grasp on this game and reality is mild at best
Nevyn Auscent wrote: It's not a needed change, it's spoon feeding null in response to a PLAYER MADE situation.
hahahahahahahahahahaha this is such a dumb comment
here, let me explain it to you: |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
525
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 07:19:04 -
[5] - Quote
Prior to this change, mining in null was equal or worse than mining in highsec. Null specific ores were less valuable than trit (except crok, because nocx).
It's not like anyone can just go and mine freely in null ore anomalies. A group must own sov, install an IHUB, install upgrades in the system and maintain the industrial level. There is no security in null, and roaming gangs of interceptors can catch and kill any miner that they find. Mining isn't free in null- being part of an alliance means that you pay taxes. Whether or not it's a per person tax or a refining tax, you have to pay to help maintain the space. Furthermore, once you get the ore in null and refine it, you then have to ship out excess mid/high ends and import the remaining low ends that you need (which incurs transport costs both ways). The number of people mining in nullsec space directly relates to how much hostile activity will be in that system, since industrial indices are readily available to everyone. This means that the more that anyone mines in null, the more the risk increases.
In highsec, you just undock and warp to a belt. If you're in a skiff, your chances of being suicide ganked are near zero. You could then refine and move your minerals freely within highsec. It doesn't matter how much ore is mined in highsec- no one can see an indices to see how much ore is mined. Furthermore, miners can resort to mining missions if their belts are done for the day.
CCP is finally making a change to fix the mining situation in null- it desperately needed a fix. Mining in nullsec was literally the worst activity you could do in terms of isk/hr in null unless you were running a fleet of 10+ miners. Players that wanted to mine to build their own ships were still forced to import low end minerals because there simply isn't enough available (WITHIN REASON- belt mining was the dumbest thing to do in null).
Now, we will have a system that rewards cherry picking nullsec static belts, while allowing for groups of players to mine anomalies in order to get proper portions of minerals that they need to build the basic t1 items that are needed everywhere.
All of the highsec hurfers are coming out of the woodworks to say how this is an unfair buff to null etc etc. They clearly have not looked at any data nor do they have a grasp on how income works across the game.
It's not a surprise that I also have to spell this out for the highsec people. As ore belts and anomalies increase in value, null miners are going to switch from ice to ores. As they do, isotope prices will increase across the board. Highsec miners will then have an opportunity to start mining (or continue to mine) ice at an increased profit per hour.
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
525
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 07:26:45 -
[6] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:one 10 days old "special" individual in a destroyer can bring halt to all mining in a whole constellation for as long as he wants.
Step 1) Fly a skiff Step 2) Orbit your can |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
526
|
Posted - 2015.04.16 08:22:42 -
[7] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:1) Unviable ship. No yield, no extra meaningful tank compared to T1 variant.
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
532
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 04:52:11 -
[8] - Quote
Jeez, I spend the weekend drinking my liver away in vegas and this thread goes to ****
I wouldn't mind CCP reducing the ark and bist in anomalies even further, making cherry picking belts and random anomaly spawns to be more valuable. I haven't finished analyzing this numbers on this, but we're already looking to be in a good spot after the change. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
532
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 04:58:52 -
[9] - Quote
Daioh Azu wrote:Doubling the demand will put upward pressure on Zydrine and Megacyte temporarily, but as long as Nullsec miners can keep the spigots open by spawning new anomalies they will continue to overproduce. Zydrine and Megacyte will not maintain their value until they return to being the production bottleneck.
This is incorrect-
There is only a huge surplus of zyd/mega right now because null miners are forced to mine through a TON of high end rocks to recycle the sites. With the new changes, significantly less arkonor/bistot/crokite will be available- in stripping out these belts, null miners will obtain a much more balanced distribution of ore rather than 1000% more high ends than they could ever use.
We'll see low end minerals decrease in price a bit as the supply kicks up in null, but those markets won't tank because of alliance taxes, transport cost, etc. Expect to see the compressed ore market take off even further because of the more mineral-specific types of ores that will be available.
Production costs of the usual t1 basket shouldn't change by much- the build costs are going to shift via cheaper lowends and more expensive high ends, but they should balance out in the majority of cases. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
533
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 00:24:06 -
[10] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Querns wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote: So all of the Deklein ratting bots will be "promoted" to mining bots? Well, like I were saying, whoever has the biggest bot fleet wins the mineral rush.
Why use a bot when a Mackinaw does 95% of what a bot does without the attendant risk of being hellbanned by CCP? The same thing applies to ishtars and ratting. Because as long as they make enough, you don't care if they're banned. CCP can hellban individuals, but not alliances. And you cannot manage 20 Mackinaws while you're asleep. The same thing applies to carriers and ratting.
Some serious grasping going on itt |
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
533
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 03:55:55 -
[11] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote:The rich will get richer off the backs of the Highsec miners. You already get enough bonuses for living in 0.0. There is nothing broken in Null right now but this will change things negatively for Highsec.
Wealth per hour comparison
Simon Alfrir wrote: I would hazard to guess that the number of players being negatively affected outweighs the number who will be benefiting from the proposed change.
The only hazard with this change is your posting |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
534
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:17:47 -
[12] - Quote
Keep digging that hole-
Here, let me help you out. How many more factors of ore is mined in The Forge than in Deklein?
Hint: more than 10x |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
536
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 22:03:08 -
[13] - Quote
So we as nullsec entities run out of game recruitment programs to get thousands of brand new players into eve online. We get them directly into nullsec and try to direct them to easy activities that they can do within a few days. Mining is the worst income per hour activity in the game at this point for an individual.
CCP announces a new change that will fix certain rocks to be rare and more valuable (namely ark) that a new player could cherry pick for some meaningful income. Also, these changes will allow a new player in null to be able to mine their own minerals in null to produce meaningful amounts of t1 items without having to import raw minerals or export a gigantic surplus of high end minerals that they can't use.
Yet- there are people that don't understand the changes that are claiming that this is an unfair boost to nullsec.
All I'm sayin is that highsec hates new players |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
537
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:05:49 -
[14] - Quote
See this image: Bots Banned Map
Then look at this from 2015 fanfest: Security Report
And then tell me where most of the bots are
We've been stuffing all of our bots into KarmaFleet and disguising them as new players
Also we kicked some that couldn't get their bots to participate in fleets |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
537
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 22:36:10 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Fozzie
I know there has been a lot of random junk in this thread, but hopefully you're still reading. It's time for me to give some constructive feedback for your consideration.
Mercoxit
I believe that we need a strong candidate to make cherry picking (or "Ninja Mining") a profession, and Mercoxit would serve that purpose greatly. Morphite is also greatly oversupplied at the moment and is a near negligible cost in t2 equipment. Therefore, I'm suggesting that we completely remove Mercoxit from all ore anoms that spawn from nullsec industrial upgrades. Here's why:
Oversupply As nullsec mining becomes more worthwhile, more people will be stripping and cycling ore anomalies. With a consistent cycling of belts, the supply of Mercoxit/Morphite will continue to increase, further dunking the price. Mercoxit alone is large (40m3), but compressed Mercoxit is only 0.1 m3 (wtf?), so it is exceptionally easy to get to an upgraded refinery and ship to empire. This means that most mercoxit mined will easily get to market.
Low Income per Hour While an individual Mercoxit rock is "valuable", Mercoxit is 40m3 per unit. Furthermore, Mercoxit is mined significantly slower than any other ore.
A fully boosted hulk mines ore at about 3421 m3/min excluding drones.
A fully boosted hulk with mercoxit rig mines Mercoxit at about 2165 m3/min (drones are not possible). This means that you're mining about 54 units of mercoxit a minute in a hulk, equating to approximately 8262 units of morphite every hour- approximately 57 mil per hour assuming you have a hauler.
As the refine rate of mercoxit increases from 293->300 and as the overall supply increases, that isk per hour will fall even further. A max hulk pilot can make upwards of 70 mil isk/hr on other ores with existing prices. (note: not many people use hulks in null because of clicks and risk)
Suggestion Remove mercoxit from all ore anomalies. Leave mercoxit in static belts and in scannable sites in nullsec. Reduce the m3 on mercoxit to a reasonable size that allows for smaller (ninja) ships to mine it. Perhaps give a mercoxit mining bonus to mining frigates.
Potential Results In making those changes, Mercoxit will turn cherry picking into a profession. There will be meaningful rewards in any player traversing nullsec looking for Mercoxit deposits and scan-able sites with Mercoxit. There are no sites that currently are a huge "win" for a miner or explorer- but making this change would enable the mining types to have "jackpots" where they have potential to make some serious ISK mining Mercoxit. This would also make it worthwhile for anyone in the game to scan down wormholes and seek out mercoxit in wh space- even for highsec miners.
Arkonor/Bistot I would not consider these ores of being worthy of ninja-mining even with the upcoming changes. There will be a consistent supply of Arkonor/Bistot coming from ore anoms, and without mining boosts, the income of ninja mining Arkonor and Bistot would still be pretty low for an individual account.
A change such as the above would give all players an opportunity to do some high risk ninja-mining that would lead to greater rewards, rather than making all mining a rather repetitive task with no real chance of "hitting it big".
Thanks to Querns for helping with this data. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
537
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 23:22:51 -
[16] - Quote
The problem is that there is now much more incentive to mine and cycle anoms, which will counteract that reduction in supply of mercoxit. Rather than leave smaller portions in existing anoms, they should make mercoxit something that can only be found via exploration or static belts, making mercoxit mining its own profession. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
537
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 23:54:46 -
[17] - Quote
My point is that even despite the proposed changes, mercoxit is still just another rock in the way of cycling belts rather than something that people specifically seek out for profit. I want to change that. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
539
|
Posted - 2015.04.24 00:49:06 -
[18] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:LTC Vuvovich wrote:Lets face it peeps, CCP is out of control plain and simple. This game has gone to **** ever since CCP ran off all the RMT's. I liked it better when RMT's were in charge... they didnt CHANGE things every 3 months or less. They simply CHARGED more. Do you really suggest we just say nothing to responses like these and through silence, endorse them?
Don't mind him, he's just sour that he lost a freighter with a station egg trying to gate it into null from highsec. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
541
|
Posted - 2015.04.25 08:01:42 -
[19] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:I was mostly referring to volatile decisions by players, since they drive the market. But same out come regardless.
Anyone making a "volatile decision" in a marketplace generally doesn't have enough ISK to have a serious impact on that market.
Manipulation, on the other hand...
edit: yes you mentioned manipulation above :) just pointing out most large swings in markets are not from an accidental "volatile decision" |
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